Jon Lester's interview with Peter Abraham of The Boston Globe was surprising on many levels, but former Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling had just two words for it: "embarrassing" and "sad."

Schilling appeared on Mut & Merloni on WEEI on Monday, and he took issue with Lester's claims that former manager Terry Francona wasn't the right guy for the job anymore, that "[his] authority [was] no longer there" and that the Red Sox "needed more structure" in the clubhouse.

"That basically says, at the age of 28, 29, 30, I need an adult more mature than me to give me rules and guidelines," said Schilling.

In fact, Schilling reiterated that Fracona's style was precisely what helped them win it all in 2004.

"We won those World Series because he was that way, because he allowed us to police ourselves," Schilling said. "What it says to me even more clearly, they have no leadership whatsoever in that clubhouse."

What might have been considered just fun-loving acts of the lovable "idiots" in 2004 marred a 2011 season marked by a lack of discipline, and namely, a lack of endurance. Schilling added that the pitchers "were absolutely not in good enough shape to pitch through September and win games."

Schilling even pointed out that pitchers spending so much time in the clubhouse was nothing new to Francona, saying that he had done so at times as a member of the Red Sox. When he did, though, Francona was quick to follow up with him.

All the while, though, Francona knew that Schilling was in there getting work done.

"These guys weren't in the clubhouse getting work done," Schilling said. "They were in the clubhouse because they didn't want to be on the bench. And that's a very different setup."

Listen to the full interview on